The Future of Work: When Passion Meets Purpose

Welcome to the Future of Work podcast with Berkeley Extension and EDGE In Tech at the University of California. Focused on expanding diversity and gender equity in tech, EDGE is part of CITRIS, the Center for IT Research in the Interest of Society, and the Banatao Institute. UC Berkeley Extension is the continuing education arm of the University of California at Berkeley.

Social impact, change-making, entrepreneurship. Opportunities abound to affect positive impact and influence by leveraging your passions. Extraordinary things can happen when passion meets purpose. Sounds overwhelming? It doesn’t need to be. You may already have a side hustle that spotlights your passion. You may already be thinking about that one project that you never seem to have enough time to put into motion.

To find out how you can get started on a path toward social entrepreneurship, we’re delighted to speak with Amanda “Kazzy” Cryer. Amanda is CEO of AC Media, an award-winning filmmaker, social impact entrepreneur and widely known influencer. She is committed to elevating voices through film, traditional media and social media, and is passionate about projects that bring awareness to important issues. Having lived and worked in both developed and developing countries, she has been active in co-creating opportunities to solve problems, shift systems and activate the inner capacity of leaders to create lasting change.

Amanda has developed, led and coached dozens of programs for organizations, as well as solo entrepreneurs worldwide that engage each participant to initiate real world projects and real strategies that produce measurable and lasting results for humanity and the planet. And she’s a former UC Berkeley Extension student. Welcome, Amanda.

Amanda Cryer: Thank you so much for having me. I’m very happy to be here. Thank you for that wonderful, wonderful welcome, very generous. Thank you, Jill.

Jill Finalyson: You’re welcome. And this is a favorite topic of mine. I have a long time been a fan and participant in social entrepreneurship, working with the Skoll Foundation and working with changemakers, using technology to solve global challenges. And so it’s really exciting to talk with you today. So I thought we could start out by saying, there are many people who are seeking more fulfillment in their careers, and many are seeking more fulfillment in their lives. So before we delve into becoming a social entrepreneur, what are you seeing in terms of people’s interest in social impact? And what might be holding them back from pursuing those interests?

Amanda Cryer: I want to answer the second question first because that’s really one that resonates from the feedback I get from people, what holds people back from going into the social impact space as an entrepreneur or as an organization. And I think that there’s this misconception sometimes that if you pursue a career in the area of social impact, in any areas of social impact, or you want to direct some of your values in your organization that stand aligned with social impact, that you’re going to lose money or that you’re going to have to suffer financially.

Because social impact has more to do with triple bottom line thinking, rather than just the bottom line, which is making money, I think that there’s a misconception that people think, well, if we’re not always just thinking about making money, and if we’re also thinking about other things, such as people and planet, then we’re not focused on making money, which means that we’re not going to make money, period.

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, there really is a false dichotomy. Oftentimes, nonprofits are seen as warm but inefficient, and corporates are seen as efficient but not warm or caring. But to your point, there is an intersection here, where you can be efficient and generate revenue and be good for the planet and people.

Amanda Cryer: I completely agree. I think a lot of corporations have been moving and are considering moving into that space. And I’m so happy when I see that. This is last year, I think maybe. But I saw that Microsoft was now hiring people that have criminal records, that have digital punishment, which is a really great thing. And I was really happy to see Microsoft doing that because that’s one of — for me there, that’s a huge shift. It’s a mindset shift in how we view humanity in general. And so once we start looking at things like that, we can look at one thing to implement into our organizations or one thing to work on as a social impact entrepreneur that can make a difference in the lives of people.

Jill Finalyson: So thinking about making impact, you can make impact either as a solo entrepreneur or a social entrepreneur. How else can you make impact?

Amanda Cryer: Even when you’re working in an organization that is really based on the bottom line, I do think that having conversations with people in the company, your bosses, your colleagues, people that are perhaps mentoring you in the company to move up, I think that there’s an opportunity to have these transformative conversations and these really important conversations with people in leadership at your company to introduce new ideas.

For instance, Walmart — Walmart is a for-profit company. And they, after much thought about what they wanted to do, they wanted to implement something, a social impact strategy to make a difference in the world. And so they made they implemented lowering their O2 emissions over a certain amount of time. And they accomplished that goal.

Having those vital conversations with people in your company, people in leadership positions, and presenting them with good opportunities, and saying, hey, you know what? We could implement these things in our company. And we could position ourselves in a way where we can actually give back in a real measurable way. And then we can also tell the world about that, which is going to make other corporations want to follow in our footsteps. So why don’t we start doing something like that?

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, I think there’s something to be said there for employee resource groups, for advocating for families, for advocating for needs of the employees. But there is also this opportunity just to be aware that having these conversations about sustainability, about the values that the company should be walking the walk, if you will, is so important because that does attract top talent. That does help retain top talent. And it really comes from an employee having initiative, having agency, and being willing to make a statement or make a suggestion that this is something we could be doing and still be profitable.

Amanda Cryer: Exactly. And please know, as a solo impact entrepreneur, you can have these conversations with the leaders at the organization that you work with. Research, do your homework about ways that company that you work with, that you work for, can make a difference in the world, and present it to them. And let them know, because this is actually a fact, that corporations that implement social impact initiatives. While it may appear a little bit risky at first, the corporations that have the courage to take that leap and do that end up becoming much more profitable on the back end.

Jill Finalyson: And I would imagine more innovative as well.

Amanda Cryer: Much more innovative because people are more discerning now as customers, as clients. When they know that if they have to pay an extra quarter or something for a product that’s helping to make a difference in the rainforest, they’re willing to do that.

Jill Finalyson: I love this taking action and feeling agency. When you discovered you had agency, what did you do next?

Amanda Cryer: I got into action immediately. I don’t think I ever recognized that I had agency at all in my life. I just don’t think I did. And it’s not because I saw myself as a victim. I just didn’t see myself as very powerful. It never occurred to me that I really had any real power. So when I saw that I did have agency, then I started feeling that I had some power. I started feeling like, wait, maybe I kind of always had this, but I needed to take it back. And because I — for whatever reason, circumstances I’d been through, life journey experiences, I had lost that.

And when I started working in this area of social impact, that’s when I regained it. And I recognized, I re-recognized that I had it and started just taking action in those areas and started using my voice and researching and learning. I can’t tell you — that’s why I’m a student of Berkeley. It’s like, I’ve done courses at Harvard. I’ve done so many programs to educate myself with more wisdom in the areas that matter to me because I want to make sure that whatever I learn is going to make a difference and that I can also pass it on to somebody else as well.

Jill Finalyson: I think that’s part of having agency is this growth mindset. And if I don’t know it, I can learn it. I can expand on that topic. What have you seen that has made you effective, and what could other aspiring social entrepreneurs learn from your experience?

Amanda Cryer: Well, it depends if someone really wants to take on unifying people. And I will say this, Jill. It’s socially acceptable to say that you want to unite.

Jill Finalyson: Social entrepreneurs have an amazing ability to do what I call yes, and. And they’re like, I can be profitable and sustainable. I can be empathetic and drive change. As I was hearing you talk about that, I was wondering what your advice is or what you’ve seen as characteristics of good social entrepreneurs.

Amanda Cryer: Never thinking you’re right. That’s definitely number one. Always, always being open to listen to other people, most importantly, especially when you don’t agree with them. Not joining silos and echo chambers with people who only agree with what you feel. Number one, what’s so imperative is to join groups that you actually have differing opinions than they do. That is so critical for us. It’s not easy to do that at first because you can almost feel like you’re in a place that you don’t belong.

But the thing is, is that we do belong. We do. And as long as you’re open to listening to other people’s points of view, that is the number one most important characteristic of someone, of a social impact entrepreneur, is being open to someone else’s point of view and not making them wrong because their personal life experiences and their business life experiences, what they’ve been through, may be completely the opposite of what you’ve gone through in your life.

Jill Finalyson: This is really avoiding othering, putting people into an other group. And one of the things we mentioned in your introduction was that you co-create opportunities to solve problems. And I think that ties in with this joining other groups and trying to hear other perspectives. How do you go about co-creating opportunities to solve problems?

Amanda Cryer: Family. So in engaging in conversations with people from all different types of backgrounds, all different religions, definitely, different sexes, different sexual orientations, different sexual identities, engaging with all groups to listen. I did a podcast not too long ago about what I thought was somebody — or the host had asked me what I thought was one of the most important things about having transformative conversations. And I said, the most important thing is listening. If I don’t listen, I’m not learning anything new, and it’s just already what I already know.

Jill Finalyson: That’s a valid point. And so as somebody who is an aspiring changemaker, this sounds like a good second step, so first, putting yourself in places where you can have these conversations, second, listening. How do you then go about building an organization or a movement?

Amanda Cryer: So again, it would go back to the basic building blocks of knowing what your values are, your universal values. Universal values are values that support not just yourself and those closest to you, but also all people, so an organization that is built on, let’s just say, values of dignity, equity, compassion, courage. You have to look at what your organization’s values are and then work around those things.

So what does that look like for dignity? Well, dignity means that every person who you come into contact with, every project that you create, is built on a foundation of dignity. What does that mean? That every person has the right to feel proud of who they are, no matter who they are, no matter where they come from. Dignity is a really, really important universal value to build any business that you have.

Whether you’re a one-person business or a multi-person business, dignity is so critical because when you’ve got leaders in business, and when you’re a leader, and when you’re working with other people that you are co-creating to become leaders, dignity is a number one, in my opinion, most important thing to implement into your business values and your mission and your commitments.

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, and you’ve worked with a lot of social entrepreneurs. How do you help them? What does your program provide to help them get going?

Amanda Cryer: It’s to do what Monica taught me how to do, and that was to ensure that every person gets very present to their innate ability to make a difference, that they have that ability to do that if they should so choose to do that.

Jill Finalyson: And that’s one of the things that you’ve done through your social media platform. Can you tell us how you became a social media influencer? And how do you use social media to deliver your mission?

Amanda Cryer: Well, I became a social media influencer by accident. That was definitely not something I set out to do. It was during the pandemic. And I started a YouTube channel, just doing some things at home that I could do to make myself feel better and not so alone and isolated. And then it just kind of moved over to LinkedIn. And then it — well, it sort of moved over to Instagram first, then to LinkedIn. And I just started sharing messages that mattered to me, messages to once again — and I know this may sound redundant — but once again, really to bring people together, to make people feel and know that they belong, no matter what, without labels.

Jill Finalyson: And you suddenly found yourself with a lot of followers. Did that change how you talk to people?

Amanda Cryer: I don’t know. I first started out just really wanting to create joy and have people experience joyful moments in their lives with this YouTube channel and have people laugh at my silliness and my high startle reflexes because I do have those. And so it was all just kind of done out of fun and wanting people to not be depressed or feel down or feel lonely. I know that during the pandemic, a lot of us were feeling lonely. I was having Zoom calls with people to make sure that we weren’t feeling lonely.

And I live with a chronic condition. And so even before the pandemic, I wasn’t really able to go out and participate in as many social functions as I would have liked to. And so when the pandemic happened, it wasn’t something brand new for me. I was not like other people where, high functioning, really healthy individuals were able to go out and socialize all the time. When the pandemic happened, that was very hard for people because all of a sudden their social lives, they were robbed of their social lives. And so they were just isolated. And so I was used to being isolated.

So when I started the YouTube channel and I started having Zoom calls with people, I thought to myself, listen, you’re isolated at home, but you don’t have to be isolated. We can get on a Zoom call. We can watch a movie together. And we could do a reaction to it. I started a Patreon account. So I started just having interactions with people online to make sure that people didn’t feel as isolated as I had already experienced in my life.

For me, it was not that big of a deal anymore because I’d already been going through that for a while. But I wanted other people to know that being isolated for a little while, that it was going to be OK, that you’d be OK. And with that, that’s really the messaging I’ve put out in the beginning, was just about bringing people together and wanting to create joy and have people laugh and have fun.

And out of that beginning messaging of mine on social media is what came my messaging of unity as well, because unity was always there in the background. It’s just not really why I started social media. I never expected to become an influencer. I just wanted to get out there and have people experience joy and have people feeling less down.

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, you mentioned your backstory. Maybe we could share just concisely a little bit about why you were prepared, if you will, for the COVID closure.

Amanda Cryer: Sure. Yeah. Yeah, for seven years, I’ve been living with a chronic illness. And I live with two brain tumors, dysautonomia, and several other illnesses, unfortunately. And I was managing not too badly before I contracted a near-fatal case of COVID last year. I lost most of my lung capacity and ended up in a hospital for two weeks and was on constant oxygen support for just over two weeks because I could not breathe on my own.

So since contracting that very severe case of COVID, unfortunately, the illnesses that I was already living with have gotten much worse. And that’s not unheard of. That’s very common. When you’re already living with autoimmune disorders and things like that, COVID can exacerbate those issues. And my doctors have all told me that. And so now, I’ve got what’s called post-COVID syndrome, long haul COVID.

But I have faith. I have faith that I will come through all of this somehow. And I just keep moving forward and just keep doing what I can to utilize whatever the talents and the wisdom that I have to make a difference, to support people in finding real genuine friendships, genuine connection, and love and relationships because I don’t think that that’s available to a lot of people who are dealing with chronic illness and also people who are dealing mental illness and neurodivergent individuals as well.

I think it’s been really difficult. Most of social media is built for high-functioning, healthy individuals. So I really would like to be a space on my social media for people who are dealing with things like that, but for all people. You can be totally healthy, and you’re welcome.

Jill Finalyson: So it seems that beyond the agency that you got from your mentor, this moment of awareness that you could help empathize with other people going through similar situations was a turning point in your social entrepreneur journey.

Amanda Cryer: Gigantic turning point for me, I mean, huge. And for a lot of years I didn’t come out. I wasn’t out in the open about really how difficult it is, the everyday living that I have, due to the conditions that I live with. And, Jill, you, UC Berkeley, you all here are one of the really people who I’m coming out full throttle with these things that I live with.

And the reason why I didn’t at first was because I was concerned that people would think I was incompetent, that I couldn’t get my job done, that I couldn’t do things because I’m living with these conditions. And I was concerned that, yeah, I would not be seen as a valuable member of an organization or somebody that could provide value because I had so many, you know, quote, unquote, “issues” with my health going on.

Jill Finalyson: That’s a really big concern. And I kind of want to flip the script and say, what have you learned now from your followers?

Amanda Cryer: The exact opposite. I will say, every single person who subscribes to my channel or follows me is so compassionate and is just always thanking me for being out in the open about things and not concealing these things about myself and, and really sharing my true self and not just the good things on the outside, when I have the more moderate days where I’m able to go out and do something. I have recently put up some other things where I’m having more severe symptoms, and I will be releasing more of that.

Jill Finalyson: When you look at beyond social media, you have told a lot of stories by film. Can you give people advice on better storytelling or how they might use film to convey the impact that they want to have in the world?

Amanda Cryer: Yes. I would definitely, for using film or media in general to convey impact is, I would say, take an investigational journalistic approach and a non-biased approach is really important. Every individual can hear your message so that it resonates deeply with as many people as possible.

Jill Finalyson: So it’s one thing to tell a story, but the reason you’re telling the story is you want to make the change that you want to see in the world. So how do you make a story, activate people, if you will.

Amanda Cryer: I would start first with something that has personally impacted you or someone you care about. I would start there. So the criminal justice system, has personally, I would say, digital punishment in particular, which is criminal records, has personally impacted my own family. And I’ve seen the damage that it has done.

And so the reason why I wanted to make a film on the criminal justice system was because I have been personally impacted by that system of digital punishment, which is why I was so happy to hear when Microsoft said, we are now going to start hiring people that have criminal records because why not? People make mistakes. They go to prison. If they rehabilitate and they get better and they want to return to society and be a valuable member of society, who are we to say that they can’t do that?

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, I believe that second chances are not evenly distributed. And so how can we foster more second chances?

Amanda Cryer: Well, the whole court system has to be overhauled because the thing about being — making a mistake in our lives or being charged with a crime — and I will say this, too, Jill. There are people who certainly should not be in prison. They should not be there. And there are people who should be. So I will say that. It goes both ways.

But I will say that all of these things get plea bargained down. So if you come from a low income family, the lawyer that’s assigned to you, which you have no choice in choosing — you have no family to help you pay for a good lawyer to fight your case — you have to take a plea bargain, which means you’re automatically going to go to prison. You’re automatically going to end up with a record.

And so it really comes down to — the income disparity in this country, income inequality, it plays so much into the criminal justice system. And that’s what I recognize the most in working in this area, is when you don’t have money to fight that, you’re up against lawyers that you have no chance. You have no chance.

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, and this is where your investigative approach comes into play and quantifying the inequality issues.

Amanda Cryer: Exactly. Precisely. Yes.

Jill Finalyson: So one of the things that you really strive to do is empower other people. How is that going? And where are you pursuing this effort?

Amanda Cryer: So how is that going? I need to start doing measurements. So thank you for asking me that question because I really need to start doing measurements. I know that people, individuals are out there in the world, saying, I’ve transformed a million lives. I’ve transformed 10 million lives. How do you know? Really, how do you know? And maybe they do know. Maybe they have implemented their measurements. And so they really do have evidence of that. I don’t have evidence of that yet.

Now, I get feedback from people all of the time, telling me about the difference that I’ve made with them, telling me about the difference that they feel about themselves. I ran two beta programs last year that were specifically about empowering people to have agency to know and recognize that they themselves are the ones to make the change. The feedback that I received from both of those programs was overwhelmingly positive, and so I was able to measure that. But I do have to start measuring again.

And when I launch another program, I will be doing measurements to see how many people are being impacted in that way, how many people truly feel empowered to make a difference in the world. And then I also want to do more measurements with them as they go into the world to do that because it’s important not just when they leave the programs that they’re in that I’m leading, but also when they go out to make those changes, I want to follow their progress, six months, nine months, 12 months to see what’s actually happening with them and help them to measure their results.

Jill Finalyson: I love that because there’s sort of a longevity play here. The first thing they try to do may not work out. There may be a second or a third. And so being able to look over time, do you have advice for people who are maybe running into friction or barriers? You’ve persisted through some of these barriers. How do other people keep working on their social venture, even though it’s very difficult?

Amanda Cryer: So I would definitely say, take on a mentor, if you have money, to work with a consultant. But it’s really important to have mentors and consultants who have been doing this work for a long time. That’s what I’ve always done. Throughout my life, throughout my learning process, I’ve always worked with mentors because you are going to come up against barriers. That’s inevitable. This is not one of those roads where it’s like, oh, everything’s just going to come your way. Oh, no. When you really want to affect change, you have to work with all stakeholders. And that’s going to be, again, with people that you may not agree with, that you may not actually want to work with either.

But to effect real change, you have to make a choice of whether or not you want to affect real change or you just want to say you’re doing it. So if you really want to fetch real change, you’re going to be working with people who you may not necessarily like and you may not necessarily agree with as well. But you can always find common ground. That’s what I found. I work with people that I don’t always agree with, but I do definitely find common ground with people that I don’t agree with. And that’s really important.

Jill Finalyson: That’s a really good tip to begin there and find the areas where you do agree and try to share the different perspectives so they can make the journey on their own because you can’t make people take a journey they’re not willing to take. As I think about a lot of the changes that are happening in the world, a lot of them are being accelerated by a lot of these emerging technologies, artificial intelligence. Do you think there’s a role for AI in creating social impact?

Amanda Cryer: Oh, boy. I’m really excited about AI in medical areas, for instance, issues that I’m living with, issues that other people are living with. AI can really advance technologies and help people live longer, healthier lives and perhaps even save lives. And so I’m very excited about things like that. It’s also AI makes me feel a little bit nervous in other areas because I want to make sure it’s being used ethically.

I don’t want to see people losing their jobs, jobs that they are very skilled at, but also jobs that they have that they use to support their families. And I also don’t want to see artists losing all of their creativity and their outlets to be creative all of a sudden now because AI can generate a graphic image for you that a graphic designer could once do for you before or a musical artist, for instance, for music or anything like that.

I think there’s a place for AI. And I’m not against AI whatsoever. I’ve used AI, so it’s not a bad thing. But I think that for me, I’m always looking at, is this something that’s ethical? Is it ethical? Is this going to hurt someone when I’m using it? Is it going to take away work from somebody when I’m using it? And if the answer is yes to those questions, then I just don’t use it. I don’t want to take away work from people.

Jill Finalyson: Yeah, my hope in the glass half full category is that AI relieves us of both the dangerous and the drudgery jobs and allows people to increase their productivity such that they can spend more time on the parts of the job that they do enjoy and the parts where human insight is so key.

Amanda Cryer: I’m in complete agreement with you with that. So especially where it can increase our productivity, that is perfect. And that is where I see it. I think that if you can use AI to help you do what you do and increase your productivity and keep your focus on what it is that you really love to do, then go for that. Do that. And let’s look at using AI as a tool to support us and what we really want to do.

Jill Finalyson: Absolutely. And we all want to live in the moment, but I have to bring out the crystal ball and say, looking years ahead now, what sort of shifts would you like to see in how we define work and success and our roles in creating a better world?

Amanda Cryer: I would like to see us defining success as someone who is a kind and compassionate human being and someone who wants to bring people together, someone who wants to make peace profitable, and someone who, regardless of their financial standing, their religion, their race, ethnicity, sexual preference, aesthetic appearance, sex.

I would like to see success mean that anyone who was kind and compassionate and wants to bring people together and wants to create peace and love. No matter how much of a cliche that might sound, that is really, truly — I would want success to mean is I would want success to mean that. And it doesn’t currently mean that, unfortunately, and I wish it did. But that is what I would want success to look like.

Jill Finalyson: So what are your final words of advice in terms of maybe people who don’t feel they have agency or for those who feel they have agency but don’t know how to make peace profitable or bring people together? What are your final tips in terms of building the social impact they want to see?

Amanda Cryer: My final tips are to join UC Berkeley’s Social Impact program, definitely, and also join the programs that I create and lead as well, and find mentors. I’m a mentor. I’m not sure. Jill, are you a mentor?

Jill Finalyson: I’m always mentoring.

Amanda Cryer: Find mentors that are working in the area of social impact and get out there and start looking at areas that matter to you and reach out to us and people that want to help guide you and give you tips and recommendations on what you can do. We’re all out here. We’re all around. And I’m a mentee as much as I am a mentor. And I’ll be doing that for the rest of my life. And I’m sure you will, too, Jill.

Jill Finalyson: Well, thank you so much for joining us, for spending your time to share your path and to share ideas for how people can get started in this space of social entrepreneurship. Thanks so much for joining us.

Amanda Cryer: Thank you so much, Jill, for having me. I’m really grateful. Have a wonderful day.

Jill Finalyson: Thank you. And with that, I hope you enjoyed this latest in a long series of podcasts that we’ll be sending your way every month. Please share with friends and colleagues who may be interested in taking this Future of Work journey with us. And make sure to check out UC Berkeley Extension to find a variety of courses and certificates to help you thrive in this new working landscape. And to see what’s coming up at EDGE in Tech, go ahead and visit edge.berkeley.edu.

Thanks so much for listening. And we’ll be back next month for another look at the Future of Work. The Future of Work podcast is hosted by Jill Finlayson, produced by Sarah Benzuly, and edited by Matt Dipietro and Natalie Newman.